• RanchWest
    278
    I have had the privilege of seeing some great jockeys. In my estimation, Shoemaker was the best... when he really wanted, the Shoe could really get a horse to run. Then there was Pat "Wait All" Day... he could and would fit through seams that most other jockeys wouldn't attempt.

    But, just how much should jockeys influence our handicapping? On many days, you could mark out any horse whose jockey had already won that day and do okay. So, does the jockey matter for handicapping?

    I suppose my viewpoint is probably different from most. I don't really care who the jockey is. What I care about is where the jockey's agent landed that jockey. I figure the agents are more insiders than anyone I have access to. What makes a leading rider is the combination of riding skill and a good agent. The top jockeys are getting the best mounts.

    So, I figure the jockey should be an element in my initial contender evaluation. After that, I don't go back to consider the jockeys.

    What about you? How do you feel about jockeys?
  • Dave Schwartz
    187
    I'm against them. :lol:

    Actually working on getting that into the new software.

    Have not had good jockey stuff since my DOS days.

    Most powerful is Photo Finish Win Pct.
  • Dave Schwartz
    187
    What other cool ideas do you have?
  • RanchWest
    278
    Well, let's don't leave this one yet. I use the MRCT of the jockeys! For their record on sprints or routes or turf, whatever they're riding in the race.
  • Dave Schwartz
    187
    Yes, we use that one as well.
    Based upon last 365 days
  • RanchWest
    278
    I am using it from BRIS. It appears to be 365 days.
  • Tom
    48
    At NYRA tracks, jockey is a big part of my pace evaluation.
    Too many riders refuse to use a horse's speed and some of them are big names,
    When evaluating early horses, I have to take that into account.

    A stat I look at is the riders's record by running style.
  • RanchWest
    278
    A stat I look at is the riders's record by running style.Tom

    From where do you obtain that stat, Tom?

    I know that I talked to a trainer at Lone Star who told me that if a jockey didn't try to go to the front end on his horses, they wouldn't be riding for him long.
  • Dave Schwartz
    187
    I know that I talked to a trainer at Lone Star who told me that if a jockey didn't try to go to the front end on his horses, they wouldn't be riding for him long.RanchWest

    @Tony Kofalt

    I am under the impression that most trainers tell the jockey how to ride the horse and, if the jockey ignores his wishes, he doesn't get mounts.

    Is that true?

    BTW, are you still a jockey agent?
  • Tom
    48
    It's in the Bris Ultimate PPs.
    As Richie Migliore says about early speed as a weapon,"They have to go where I've already been."
    Attachment
    jockey stat (55K)
  • RanchWest
    278
    Thanks, Tom.
  • Dave Schwartz
    187
    It's in the Bris Ultimate PPs.
    As Richie Migliore says about early speed as a weapon,"They have to go where I've already been."
    Tom

    Excellent.
    A feature we need in The Studio.
  • RanchWest
    278
    A feature we need in The Studio.Dave Schwartz

    It sure seems like a good feature. Jockeys generally have a style, just like horses do.
  • Tom
    48
    I think it would even better if broken down by surface/distance as well.
  • Dave Schwartz
    187
    I think it would even better if broken down by surface/distance as well.Tom

    Oh, we'll do WAY MORE than that.

    I'm going to re-do our trainer stats as well, and those are already mind-blowing.

    We have the usual stuff like---
    wymjaua2gdj8w201.jpg

    But we've also got PERFORMANCE STATS.
    ghq69p5j01ua4kwa.jpg

    But I want to re-do them ad add a couple hundred more factors.
  • Tony Kofalt
    277


    Dave, in my experience most trainers provide riding instructions to jocks. Sometimes owners even enter the conversation. For the most part jocks do what they can to follow the instructions but when gate opens the best laid plans often get derailed.
    In the mid 1980's I was part of a paddock conversation between jockey Rudy Aviles (high percentage jock) and a 25% plus trainer whom I'll leave unnamed. The trainer got a little carried away and gave what felt like was 5 minutes of instructions. After listening to the instructions Rudy looked at the trainer and said, Steve you train 'em and I'll ride them. The trainer was speechless. Needlesstosay Rudy steered his mount home 5 in front. I don't believe I ever heard this trainer provide instructions again.

    I do not represent any jockeys today. I would definitely consider it if I spotted the right rider. It actually is a nice compliment to wagering. In fact I have been pursuing a young apprentice rider currently taking calls at Indiana Grand. I watched her work horses at GP when she was just starting to ride. This young lady has the tools to enjoy a prosperous apprentice year. Her name is Gage Holmes, keep an eye on her. She's currently won 3 out of 45 races but she's been riding longshots for the most part. I expect her to have a big year.
  • Dave Schwartz
    187
    Love the story.
    I've heard similar before.
    Had an old friend/client (early '90s) Jeff G. who had Robbie Davis' book for a while. The stories I got were really amazing.
  • RanchWest
    278
    Great info, Tony!
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