• Biniak
    54
    I have a friend who uses Value Capper and Pace Plus in combination and does great.
  • RanchWest
    423
    Good tournament players seem to be very good at high risk, high reward plays. I doubt if that mindset meshes with the typical handicapper. I think most of us are content with a grind and occasional score approach.
  • Tony Kofalt
    295

    Dave, I can't say that I do like the plot approach. I just presented it as an alternative to RanchWest topic here. The position of the squares and circles are based on numeric ratings. The product suite also presents the numeric data in a spreadsheet.
  • Dave Schwartz
    237
    Dave, I can't say that I do like the plot approach. I just presented it as an alternative to RanchWest topic here. The position of the squares and circles are based on numeric ratings. The product suite also presents the numeric data in a spreadsheet.Tony Kofalt

    I agree.
    While I could possibly get something out of viewing a graph in a more... conventional configuration, I just don't connect with this one.
  • Tony Kofalt
    295
    Has anyone ever tried Thorograph? Can you offer any comments on the layout and the data presented? How do you deal with pace in the product? Just curious
  • Conley
    402
    Has anyone ever tried Thorograph? Can you offer any comments on the layout and the data presented? How do you deal with pace in the product? Just curiousTony Kofalt

    I have and did for a short period of time due to the information being very expensive but then I created my own ThoroGraph "figure" and now I don't buy them since I do the figures myself

    It took a while to get a formula going for it but now I use it for my every day handicapping which I call the "CFigs" which I thought was pretty inventive lol

    I also do my own harness ratings which combine Form Class Speed Driver and Overall rating of the horse to create 1 full rating for each horse

    Sorry for getting off track but I think if everyone works hard to make themselves better in the game you can go very far in life!
  • Dave Schwartz
    237
    @Tony Kofalt, my long-ago playing partner (who you met at Saratoga about 15 years ago with me) decided that we should test Ragozin's numbers. We got them every day for a year. They were magnificent. The challenge was that someone had to hand-enter them into a spreadsheet for tracking because there was no data file available.

    A similar test with TG was (by comparison) very disappointing.
    Those two companies are vastly different today, but those were our experiences.

    The concepts behind 02X were quite solid, BTW.


    I have and did for a short period of time due to the information being very expensive but then I created my own ThoroGraph "figure" and now I don't buy them since I do the figures myselfConley

    How good are those figs of yours?
    Any stats?
  • Conley
    402
    How good are those figs of yours?
    Any stats?
    Dave Schwartz

    I did test them at Keeneland Fall 2021 I also did do Breeders Cup last year
    Final Stats for the 2021 Keeneland Fall Season
    Winners on Top: 27/78 (34.6%) Bet: $156.00 Returned: $217.20 Profit/Loss: +61.20
    Winners Top 2: 35/78 (44.8%)
    Winners Top 3: 48/78 (61.5%)
    Winners Top 4: 58/78 (74.3%)

    Breeders Cup 2021
    Friday
    R6: no hits
    R7: #6 $3.60 + Exa Tri Sup
    R8: #1 $21.80 + Exa
    R9: #12 $4.80
    R10: no hits

    Saturday
    R4: 3rd pick won + Exa Tri Sup
    R5: no hits
    R6: #5 $3.80 + Exa
    R7: #8 $10.60
    R8: #5 $24.60 (2nd choice but I count still as winner T2) + Exa
    R9: #3 $6.20
    R10: no hits
    R11: no hits
    R12: #5 $8.40

    8 winners Top 2/14 races
    5 exactas 2 trifectas 2 supers
  • Dave Schwartz
    237
    Winners on Top: 27/78 (34.6%) Bet: $156.00 Returned: $217.20 Profit/Loss: +61.20Conley

    Wow!
    If you have a systematic way of producing numbers that results in a flat bet profit, that makes you the only one that I am aware of.
  • Conley
    402
    Wow!
    If you have a systematic way of producing numbers that results in a flat bet profit, that makes you the only one that I am aware of.
    Dave Schwartz

    Can you please be a reference when Woodbine calls for the analyst position in the next few weeks?
  • RanchWest
    423
    Tony, I think the visual program I was thinking about was Equisim.
  • Tony Kofalt
    295
    Not familiar with Equisim Ranch. I remember a sheet like product that a friend of mine used. If memory serves me correctly it was owned by Cary Fotius. It incorporated pace into the final numbers. It was named Equi 'something' lol
  • Tom
    71
    Did the Fotius program evolve into Predictform at Brisnet?
  • Dave Schwartz
    237
    Can you please be a reference when Woodbine calls for the analyst position in the next few weeks?Conley

    That would need to be a private discussion.
  • Tom
    71
    Speaking of "Sheets," this is one of the PP formats CJ used to offer with his program, before TFUS.
    It shows the pace and speed figs for pace of race alongside pace of horse, and plots the performance figure, color coded for surface.
    Attachment
    cjpp (91K)
  • Tony Kofalt
    295

    According to a quick internet search it is the same product. Good job Tom
  • Tony Kofalt
    295

    Wow- I never saw CJ's performances before. Thanks.
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