I can't beat that one!! I've instances where the racing secretary will write a race for non-winners at the meet but that one is great.

Can't dispute that Ranch! Don't know if you handicap NY often but it seems to me that riders seldom hook up in duels. It feels like I have difficulty identifying these situations. There is a fine line between winning and losing, and I try not to blur that line. I believe I can improve my bottom line with better pace handicapping but I hesitate not to change much.

Jim and Ranch- this is why I like discussion on this board, you guys really make me think. As I've stated before, even though I manage to beat out a living in this game I see pace evaluation a real weakness in my game. Several of you gave me some real good ideas about pace in a thread a few months ago. Tom made some great contributions there. I'm sorry to say that I'm still not comfortable with how I evaluate pace. When I string P5's together there are always 1 or 2 races pace makes me scratch my head. If any of you see any races in NY where you'd like to discuss pace just post. I'd really like to bounce ideas off each other.

Very interesting discussion and some I face nearly every day. In NY there are a lot of maiden races run. When I evaluate maiden races, I find that not all maiden winners can be treated the same. Winners of 2yo and 3yo races seem more likely to 'improve' while winners of maiden races for older maidens need to demonstrate they can handle moving up in class. To me this difference between maiden races can vary throughout the year. For example, 3yo's competing in 3yo&up races may not be as competitive in the spring as they might be later in the year.
Belmont opens this Thursday. There is a maiden carded as part of both P5's. One maiden race is for 2yo's and the other is for 3yo&up. I feel that we not only need to handicap these races differently but we need to exavluate the winners differently when they race next time.
I find this subject to be real neat and would be happy to discuss any NY examples that come up.

Thanks Conley!!

Dave, does the HDW download into HSH utilize Jim Cramers pace numbers? The same figures available in RS/POS? I'm still spending a lot of time seeing how I can improve the 'pace' portion of my handicapping. Thanks

Tom, I've read some of Mark Cramers work and always felt he offered good logical opinions. I don't recall this topic but I find it interesting to learn. Thanks for sharing it with us!!

Thanks guys!!

My post was all about creating value. My Man Matty broke poorly and never had a chance but the message remains, creating value.
In this P5 sequence a $2 parlay on the winners would have paid $844. But, largely due to My Man Matty losing the P5 returned. $4264 for a $2 ticket. That is 5X's the parlay. And you don't have to be a P5 player to benefit. Check out the parlay vs the DD and P3 payouts as well. Eliminating a low priced horse help your bottom line.

At least Chad Brown didn't beat me today!! lol

Thanks Tom!!

It may Dave, I need to re-read your post and digest the info. I will do that soon and get back to you with my thoughts. Thanks for checking

I want to be clear that I'm not trying sell or convince anyone to use Formulator. The product simply offers some features that 'fit' my way of play. Formulator is simply PP's with some extensions to peripheral information. The product in no ways compares to HSH. But for those of us who enjoy examining PP's its a strong product.

Hey William, I will try to check that out. I currently print the PP's and mark up the hard copy. One could save the PP's as a PDF and mark up the PDF. I will check if the Formulater product can be marked up within the constraints of the product.

Dave, I'm sorry if I wasn't clear but I don't know of a way to assign notes to jockeys or trainers. You can add notes for individual horses, a race (which adds the notes to each horse in the race) or by card which adds the note to every horse on the card.

Dave,
Here is a screen shot of the data entry box that opens when you select the 'notes' option on the result charts. Followed is a shot of a PP. Note that one can also enter notes for a specific horse by typing them into for notes box on the top right corner of each PP

Dave, I utilize Formulator to accomplish. From within Formulator there is an option to access race charts. Then I can drill down into a specific race chart such as the one found below.



The race in question is for 2-18-23, race 6 at Aqu. When you examine the results chart you can see that both the winner and runnerup came from near the rear of the field and the 2 early leaders both faded to finish near the rear. I marked this race as an inverted race, as I believe the winners may have benefitted from the race setup and the early speed types may have been compromised by the setup. To do this, I simply click on the 'Notes' button located on the right side of the line beginning with standard chart. A small window will open allowing me to enter 'Note' for each horse in the race as well as a note for the entire race (which will be added to the PP's of each starter.) I could also choose to enter a note for the entire card which will display in the PP's of each starter.
The next time each horse runs their PP's will include the notes. I then have the option of printing the notes in future PP's.
Dave if this doesn't answer your question please let me know.

Hi Jim, thanks for the feedback. I was never able to try place/show betting. It just didn't seem to fit my personality. But let me say this. Regardless of your handicapping or wagering methodology you are going to encounter bad streaks. I am so fortunate to do this professionally and I still have to fight through droughts and losing streaks.
My point is try to develop a methodology that 'feels' good to you. Then don't be too quick to abandon it. Make small wagers, if any, and consider tweaks you could make. The friends I have in this industry all struggle through some lean weeks and months.

Can't argue that point. Just like most successful businesses.

I will reply sometime this weekend. Just a busy couple of days handicapping ahead. Thanks Dave